View Full Version : message sent to take2games and rockstar

01-10-2011, 01:13 PM
I was limited to 300 characters to send my 'message' to game developer www.take2games.com (http://www.take2games.com) about taking a different attitude towards the killing of civilians and police in their games:


Suggestion: if T2G took a dif stance regarding civilians and police, that is, punish gamers w/ 'jail time' if they bash them, it would be noteworthy and receive a lot of press, good for profits imo, & would be a challenge as well for gamers to 'miss' those targets. Plz think.

The point I hope to achieve, that if RockStar games, the makers of GTA and others, who regularily regard killing of innocents and police as part of the gaming experience, that if they reversed their stance regarding this, they would receive a lot of free press, and certainly probably a lot more sales as a result.
The suggestion during a game, if they punished gamers by throwing them in jail for a 'time out' if the gamer deliberately killed a civilian or police, that it could make the game more of a challenge to avoid those targets.

In fact, most real 'heavy violent' crime is committed against other criminals. Why don't they design their game around that concept, that you are a criminal against another gang? That alone is enough 'gaming' if the game is designed right. That they actually have an opportunity to reinforce that innocents and those doing good in our society should not ever be considered a target... or gamers shouldn't be desensitized to this fact, and in fact it can be used as another aspect to the game. In GTA for example there are walls and other physical aspects that a gamer has to deal with in order to navigate a game... innocents can be yet another layer of challenge for the gamer.

There is a fundamental difference between most fps games us typical gamers enjoy and those created by Rock Star Games, and that is those we are shooting at are trying to shoot at us. It is a balanced situation and the motivation to 'get your target before he/she gets you' is understood. Unlike that example, GTA looks at the human form as just an empty shell and worthy of destruction. It reminds me of the attitudes expressed by the Iraq leader Saddam Hussein himself and his ruthless sons, especially Qusay Hussein, who reportedly killed and abused people just because he felt like it. Seriously, does any game want to use this guy as their inspiration?

One last point, a long time ago while starting college I had a discussion with a women about the making of stories. She said that any good story always has some sort of moral lesson, even though it isn't actually said or talked about. It made me look at all the stories I had read and watched (movies), and I began to realize that she was right, they all had some sort of moral lesson, and they were considered great movies. That's not to say watching zombie movies and killing them in L4D isn't fun, it is, but it means that if you aren't dealing with aliens, monsters or humanlike zombies, that you should consider finding a way to enhance your story line to achieve a heighted level of experience. If you don't, then all you're making is a snuff type story.

Note: I just blindly googled for the following links and don't read any of those, but were the first one's I clicked on to help readers quickly catch up on my points if they don't know the story themselves.

You may of heard in the news regarding the shooting in Arizona where a mad man killed 6 and wounded some 14 others: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/01/suspect_idd_in_custody_in_ariz.html
Apparently the gunman was sold a clip that held something like 31 bullets ( http://bloggingblue.com/2011/01/10/weapon-used-in-arizona-shooting-was-banned-under-clinton-era-assault-weapons-ban/ ), and he had a couple of those clips but was prevented from loading the second clip, both bought at Sportsman Warehouse. Anyway, apparently there was a law that prevented the sale of such clips but had expired. My point is, that store and I'm sure many others decided that selling the clip would probably make them more money. RockStar games is in the same situation, they are competing for revenue in order to stay in business and have unfortunately opted for getting into the gutter to be successful and stay in business. Many other games seem to be following their lead as well as more are starting to get gratuitous with the graphic violence of their games in order to make them 'more intense, more real, more, more, more' than the other games. And here's my point: do the right thing even if it makes you a poor individual. If everyone is out to screw you over financially, and you're out to screw them over financially with a crappy product, where does that leave everyone?

I suggest that any good movie you've ever seen in your life didn't have to resort to this as the central focus of it's success, and that games shouldn't either. 'If you don't have a good story, then don't bother making the game'.

It comes down to us, the people with the money. If they, the developers don't have common sense and a basic understanding of what makes a game, movie, tv special or show successful, then it is us the consumer that has to step up to influence their choices. We can all be tempted by the action & adventure, by the influence of the masses and peers, by the money we stand to make (greed), but it is fundamental to one's own sense of what's right or wrong that will ultimately determine what kind of life you lead and what kind of world you live in.

holy idaho potatoes (no i wasn't thinking of saying that specifically, but tempered myself as I am basically asking others to do), now that is a rant.

I welcome others to send a similar request to Take2Games. http://www.take2games.com/contact/index.php

01-11-2011, 12:50 PM

I should note that I am not suggesting that people should not buy GTA or other RockStar games. As always, individuals can make their own choices in life. If you already own GTA or another RockStar game title, I'm sure you enjoy the game.

I personally have tried the demo for Mafia 2 and think it's pretty great to be able to drive around in a large city and interact with pedestrians in an urban environment... that's what I like about all the RockStar games. I just personally don't like the aspect of using innocent civilians as targets as noted above, and that is my personal opinion. For me, if they changed that aspect of the game I would probably give their games a try, and thus the main reason for me speaking up. I find that aspect personally objectionable and hope they change their attitude so that I can join in the fun. GTA and Mafia both incorporate large urban environments with civilian MPC's unlike any other game I can think of, and Red Dead Redemption keeps some of those aspects as well. For me, I guess I'll have to wait until another game incorporates those things, or wait for RockStar & Take2Games to change their attitude regarding this issue.

Everyone is welcome to express their opinion.

Question 1: Do you think that certain things influence other things? If so, do you think that negative things can influence life in a negative direction and visa versa, positive things influence things into a positive direction?

Question 2: Do you think MW2's (Modern Warfare 2) incorporation of the Airport Scene where civilians were killed was partly influenced by GTA's attitude?

Question 3: When a developer is trying to make the next 'big game' with new features and excitement, do you think they can go too far? Is there a line that is too far or is anything that a human is capable of doing all okay and not cause for worry? If you think it isn't a cause for worry, are you saying that you believe nothing we are exposed to will have an influence on other things?

Question 4: Have you noticed that many new games are incorporating the f-bomb on a more regular basis than just 8 years ago? I don't believe that COD4 did, but COD5, WAW does. Do you think this is true or do you think it is about the same as early video games?

Question 5: I don't think it's a secret that games influence other games, like how COD4's achievement system has creeped into other games, but do you think that 'influence' is limited to just how games are developed or do you think there can be a cross over into real life with some of this stuff, if only by a few people?

That's a tough one as one can look at all gaming as a way for people to let out frustrations and thus avoid real world negative actions.

I took a look at the game ratings from RockStar Games, and I might be mistaken but all of their games are either rated E for everyone or M for Mature. Nothing in between. But it hit me that even the Mature games seem to be pandering to a very young teen audience, and I wouldn't be surprised to find that the demographics support this assumption, and here's why: Young people in their teens are facing adulthood in their future. Like those who spray graffiti on walls, they are trying to make their mark, to deal with the world in some way. In effect they are (some) are striking out at it, kind of poking it, to see what is in store for them as adults and to see what the limits are. Limits, that's an important concept in my mind. It is, in a way, when a kid is allowed to drive a car alone, they check to see how fast a car can go, within limits, and how fast it can stop. It's a test to see what the limits are in order to be able to keep control of the vehicle in any situation. GTA allows a certain type of rebellious interaction, an interaction against all things adult, thus it is my belief that they are pandering to a younger audience, yet their titles are rated M, so in fact they should be out of business ;) .

Here's the caviat: Banning individuals that cheat does teach them a valuable life lesson, that cheating is not acceptable. If you steal something you will be punished. If you hit someone you will be punished. Those things teach people the acceptable way to behave as adults so that we can all get along and build a better life for everyone :) . In fact many of these things are taught by a person's parents, but in our ever growing and complex society I think many kids are missing this type of interaction with their parents or perhaps their parents don't have it together themselves. That's were clans do step in, supported by Anti Cheat systems. Together we set the limits and reinforce common societal behavior to allow for a positive interaction (gaming fun). So for me, where GTA has a real opportunity to be a positive influence by reinforcing acceptable public behavior, they opt, at least at this stage in game development history (and in my opinion), to pander to teenagers who want nothing more than to strike out against everything adult (run them over!).

Would you agree with their pandering attitude (knowingly or not) or do you think they're offering GTA to 18+ audience only?

They're not alone. Just watch almost any Disney TV show and you will see that most adults are portrayed as fumbling idiots, not as sources of experience or wisdom, but more as the evil enemy. Still, you can look even at this as 'kids taking control of a situation and coming up with a plan and successful solution,' and thus building the tools they'll need to be successful thinking adults themselves. At least you won't see on Disney someone's head getting chopped off and blood gushing out - YAY!


01-12-2011, 04:40 AM
wouw... u wrote all this??

I like Rockstargames :)

01-12-2011, 10:31 AM
Yeah it is a lot of blah blah blah, but that's what it takes to make an argument.

I like Rock Star Games too. Mafia 2 and all there games are solid. I just think they have an opportunity that's being missed while at the same time pandering to children M rated games. That's all ;)

hmm, maybe that's all I should of written. ;D

01-12-2011, 03:06 PM
shifty rly has a lot to say on this matter?xD

anyway, GB, rockstar make cash out of killing civilians, in games. that is the main adut to their games, every 13year old boy wants to grow up shooting stealing and eventualy becoming a drug lord. you and i, gb, want this not to be like that, but rockstar wants cash. and it will be like that. if they change this rockstar will lose the violance and gangrelated game making name. they are known for that. imagine Toyota started making supercars or Serbia being a good neghboor. they stop being 1st in someting. Gta is first in blood, gore, drugs, hookers, insane driving, insanity, sickness, not putting anmals in their games and poor bugd graphics. And that is what sells.

There is logic, and i fully support it, but it will most likely be adopted by other developers, publishers and game names, but not gta rockstar or other similarities.

i personaly would like to see tryarch(iw or w/e thesedays) make a gta game. i think gta, in it current state sucks.